96 Affordable Eco Communities in Costa Rica

[Richard Bexon]

Good morning, Patrick. How are you doing?

Good. Taking a quick sip of my coffee here before we get started.

[Patrick Hiebert]

Nice to see you again, Richard.

[Richard Bexon]

Good.

[Patrick Hiebert]

Good to see you. Is that coffee from Boquete? It actually is coffee from Boquete.

I ran out of Boquete coffee mixed with a little Ecuadorian coffee.

[Richard Bexon]

Well, look at you. Look at you. Good coffee.

Good coffee. Boquete does some great stuff. I actually got a friend, actually, whose family started some of them with the Geisha coffee that's up there in Boquete.

Nice.

[Patrick Hiebert]

That stuff is pretty amazingly valuable. I was up there the other day, and there was a pound of coffee was $1,000 for this one.

[Richard Bexon]

Wow, wow. Well, anybody that's joining us on the podcast, Patrick has an amazing background there. He's actually on Avenida Balboa.

I think they're in Panama City, right? That's correct. Yeah.

That's Panama City, Panama, not Panama City, Florida, guys, as people often get. Exactly. So, but Patrick, I mean, it's been a crazy few years.

But I mean, in the past year, I mean, what surprised you and what trends are you seeing in your world of kind of development? Well, it's definitely been crazy.

[Patrick Hiebert]

I mean, obviously, the whole COVID thing has really changed the game for us a lot. You know, whether it's people looking at sustainability, you know, it's kind of the main theme, I would say, in communities that, you know, as ecovillages, that's what we developed. We have our first certification system that we've worked with, and that's really freedom, independence, resilience, sustainability, and transparency is what the FIRST stands for, the acronym.

And it's really resonated with a lot of people. I think, you know, the freedom side, we've seen a lot of probably 20, 30 times increase in exodus out of other countries and influx into the Costa Rica and various Latin American regional countries. And a lot of that was just based on the way, you know, people felt about how their country responded to COVID.

And it was just, you know, in general, a lot freer down here in terms of, you know, mandates and vaccine requirements, all those sorts of things. So we really have seen a huge influx into the area. And then with, you know, people being concerned about, you know, food on the shelves and things in grocery stores in different areas.

And so the sustainability and being able to grow your own food and, you know, have your own kind of governance in your own community is it's just been a huge thing for the popularity of our communities as well.

[Richard Bexon]

Definitely, definitely. I mean, yeah, I mean, we've definitely seen that demand. And I know that, you know, I've been speaking to a lot of people in the US and also in Canada as well.

Canada seems to have had a bit of a, you know, people don't seem to have had the freedom that they thought that they had up there, especially the unvaccinated. And I've got some people trying to get out and they can't get out.

[Patrick Hiebert]

You know, yeah, no, I'm Canadian. And I can totally I mean, I was lucky enough 1520 years ago to get out and get my residency here. You know, Canadians are actually lucky in that way.

If you're American, your your taxes follow your citizenship. But if you're Canadian, it's your right. So you can like like me, I became a resident down here in Central America, a couple different countries.

And, you know, and I gave up my residency in Canada over a decade ago. And, you know, in hindsight, that was a really good call, because yeah, I mean, the Canada I grew up in doesn't seem to exist anymore. You know, just the whole implementing a war act on your own people and those sorts of things is just it would have been unheard of in my mind.

Maybe maybe I was naive. Maybe it's always been like that. But, you know, the COVID kind of pushed everything out into the open.

So it's really it's it's unfortunate. I love Canada. I don't want to put it down, but I don't love the politics of Canada and the divisiveness now.

[Richard Bexon]

Yeah, I think a lot of people feel like that. And hence why we're seeing this exodus. And I think that you what you guys do at eco villages kind of serves what a lot of people are looking for.

But I mean, maybe you can explain some of the other projects that you guys, you know, that you've done, what you have kind of coming up and what you guys are looking forward to in the future.

[Patrick Hiebert]

Yeah, we have designed communities and developed communities in Belize, Honduras, looking at Rotam as well right now. El Salvador, obviously, we were, you know, pretty excited. We did we designed the early stages of a Bitcoin based community.

We have a number of communities we designed in Nicaragua. Nicaragua became pretty popular recently because it was kind of one of the countries that was really free in terms of no mandates and no vaccines and any sort of thing like that. And and design some things.

And currently we're looking at Argentina vineyard communities, but really focused right now on Costa Rica and Panama. And one of the reasons I was talking to you is, you know, we're we're looking for property and in Costa Rica and in certain different areas. And we hope to acquire something in the next month and really excited about creating one of these communities, kind of freedom oriented, independent, sustainable communities in in Costa Rica as well.

[Richard Bexon]

Yeah. I mean, what I mean, you guys take a project from like, again, finding the land to actually the final build of like a home on it, right? Correct.

Yeah. So, you know, right from right from soup to nuts, right.

[Patrick Hiebert]

We you know, we're because we have such a focus on sustainability that plays a big part in the land that we want to find as well. Right. So, you know, we we have a lot of beachfront communities, but we're we're doing a lot more that are a little bit more highland oriented because you get a bit of a cooler climate or a springtime all the time kind of climate.

And that lends itself for growing your own food and being year round sustainability. I just you know, a lot of people that come down to this region and think about sustainability don't really understand it, because if you're from, you know, Nordic countries or Canada or something like where I grew up, I grew up in a farming community in central Canada. Well, it gets down to minus 40 there in the winter.

Well, nothing nothing grows right for six months of the year. So your mindset is to to create your sustainability for half the year and then conserve it. Whereas down here, you have a totally different kind of growing environment, growing seasons and everything you can grow year round, you can grow just about anything.

It's actually takes a lot less land in down in these communities in Central America to to grow your own food for sustainability than it does in a lot of those other countries. And so, you know, we it's fun because, you know, we get to focus on different sorts of things. We'll create what are called lifestyle farms, what you and I might have thought of as hobby farms.

Back in the day, and then there's a state homes and mid sized homes. And we do a lot of tiny homes and condominiums. And so it's a full, full community with a lot of different types of homes and different neighborhoods within the community.

But in total, the community is meant to be self sustaining, so and resilient to things. And so what we find is it turns out to be a lot of like minded people to rent. So, you know, people that are looking for that tend to be not the divisive type, like, I just really depresses me looking at North America and the political divide.

And, you know, between the left and the right, I consider myself more of a libertarian and kind of not on that spectrum so much. But, but, you know, I just don't like the censorship and the and the cancel culture and all that. And so our communities kind of relieve people of that kind of stuff.

[Richard Bexon]

So, well, this is definitely a great part of the world to be doing it in because, again, as I always say, people a lot of the time here is the government doesn't get involved, and nobody really cares.

[Patrick Hiebert]

Exactly. I mean, it's funny how the, you know, the US State Department websites or whatever threatened about what these countries are like. But, you know, when the when the crap hit the fan, you know, the proof was in the pudding.

Who are the freest, least involved in your life countries that were the ones down here?

[Richard Bexon]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, as I mentioned that you guys take it, you know, from, you know, from just the I suppose the idea all the way through to the final build.

I mean, what do you guys typically find is the most difficult step in that process?

[Patrick Hiebert]

Well, I think, you know, there's a lot of times people come down and they fall in love with a country like Costa Rica or a certain area. I just I'm going to buy some land and I'm going to be a developer. And it's late 25 years ago or so.

I started like that, too. I paid a lot of tuition. I went to school hard knocks and learned a lot of lessons along the way.

But I mean, I know a lot. There's there's so many layers to it. Right.

People don't think of it's like, oh, I need to find a way to to get water for, you know, on these properties or concession for water or permitting for for the size of lots, the minimum size of lot that you can have and those sorts of things. Those are really the, you know, the headache points, I guess, for those of us that are in the development world. Finding the land is the fun part, making, you know, creating home designs that are spectacular and beautiful and what we call eco sensible.

We're not eco fanatics. We really believe that eco friendliness needs to have a financial component, too. Like if you have solar panels on your home, that's great.

It's good for the it's good for the planet, but it's also good for your pocketbook in terms of saving a lot of money. So we try to find a balance in there with, you know, with our eco concepts. But a lot of that's the fun part, right?

It's the part that nobody likes is the, you know, is the permitting, the regulations, the restrictions and that. And fortunately, there's less down here. Like, for instance, an example would be the tiny homes in North America or Europe.

Your tiny homes basically have to be on wheels that are basically an RV. And but down here, we build tiny homes with concrete foundations. You know, they're real, just smaller homes, right?

Just efficiently designed homes. And, you know, they'll be here 500 years from now. So it's a totally different environment.

And the nice thing about countries like Costa Rica is you can do that. Whereas, you know, if you're in Arizona, you can't.

[Richard Bexon]

Yep. Well, yeah. And I mean, look, I mean, I think that people sometimes think that they need big homes when we're down here in the tropics.

And especially, you know, I'm just going to use Costa Rica, but we spend a lot of time outside. So, you know, you just literally spend the only time inside is sleeping. And like, you know, I mean, that's probably about it cooking, maybe.

But even cooking is outdoors a lot of the time.

[Patrick Hiebert]

Yeah.

[Richard Bexon]

And some of these, you know, it's very open plan. And, you know, you really don't need that much space.

[Patrick Hiebert]

Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's why our tiny homes are so popular, right? You need a place to sleep, a bathroom and a place to cook.

And like you said, you know, because the weather is always nice, you're always using outdoors as part of your living space. I mean, I go watch the Super Bowl on my deck, right? I don't sit in a great room or a living room or whatever.

And, you know, I'm Canadian, so I watch a lot of hockey, but it's almost always outdoors. So and, you know, that just becomes part of your living space. And so why pay for that if it's just an empty spot inside your house that never gets used?

So that's you know, and even on the tiny homes, we create two and two bedroom, two bathroom tiny homes. Well, nobody ever has heard of that. Like that's not, you know, but you can because you don't need a space for a lot of other things.

You're basically sleep and then you're going outdoors and you're climate is always like that. You can't do that in upstate New York, maybe, but you can do it down here.

[Richard Bexon]

Yeah. Well, Patrick, I mean, creating community. I mean, how do you try and create that community?

Because I mean, building homes is one thing, but then also having that like central, you know, there needs to be supermarket or there needs to be something in order to get stuff. I mean, how do you guys go around like creating that like schooling and all that kind of orientated stuff?

[Patrick Hiebert]

Yeah, it really depends on the location. When we're in a more isolated location, we have to create the clinics and the schools and grocery stores and those sorts of things. But equally important is the is the social gathering areas, right?

We have obviously, we have a lot of digital nomads. So a lot of our third spaces or common areas have, you know, high speed Wi-Fi and people sitting around and kind of working outdoors as well. And there may be a, you know, a palapa, a grass thatched roof type of thing.

And then, you know, pools around and it's a more of a work balance, you know, work life balance type of environment. But, you know, we will have like amphitheaters and all sorts of things like that built into the communities where and every home, we think of it as being, you know, part of the community to earth. In North America, you drive into your garage and you walk into your house, you never see your neighbors, you may not even know who they are.

And it's quite different down here because of that whole outdoor living thing. We designed the communities where you, you know, you're almost somewhat forced to walk past your neighbors, say hi, you know, while you're, you know, walking by, they're having a coffee outside on their deck or whatever. And it just becomes, you know, there's usually kind of like the campfire spot of the town, not necessarily a fire, but maybe there's an infinity pool where people gather and have a glass of wine and watch the sunsets and things like that.

So it just becomes designed more for community, you know, and it really works well. People, people love it because, you know, I often get the questions, like I'm thinking of being an expat and moving down to a country like Costa Rica, but I'm worried I'm not going to have any friends. And I was like, you're going to be worried that you have too many friends.

You're going to want some, you're going to want a break from friends for a while. So that's never, I've never seen that be a problem, especially in the communities that we developed.

[Richard Bexon]

Yeah. I mean, I, people, I think that's number one, that's a big concern that people have is how will I be part of a community and make friends? I'm like, look, anyone that's coming down here asked exactly the same question.

Like everybody is looking for their tribe, their community and wanting to make friends. So, you know, and you're going to find is that these certain types of communities, like you guys attract a certain type of person that like, again, like-minded people. So it's going to be very easy to create that community and make friends.

And if you've got kids, you know, sometimes people are like, well, what about my kids making friends? I'm like, that's the least of your worries. Usually it's about the adults making friends, not the kids.

Yeah, exactly.

[Patrick Hiebert]

And then kids create a situation where the adults become friends too. It's like, I'm going to go over to Mary's house and, you know, I'll walk you over there and I'll, you know, meet the parents. And then all of a sudden you're having a barbecue together.

And, you know, it's just, to me, it's like kind of more of an era of like, I grew up in a small town in Canada and it's more like that, right. It's takes a village to raise a family kind of thing. And it's much more like, and I just find it a lot more wholesome, I guess.

I don't know. It's like, I think the people that the kids turn out to be better people growing up like that. Plus in these regions, right, they're going to learn things that they wouldn't learn at home.

They're going to learn about different currencies, different languages, different cultures, and, you know, all stuff that's kind of through osmosis that they don't even realize they're learning, right. So if you're going to the grocery store in a Costa Rican town, you're going to use the Costa Rican currency, right. Or at least be able to convert it.

And then when you grow up and go to Dubai or something, it's not foreign to you that there's these, you know, other cultures in the world. My own kids got to travel a lot and really became, you know, what I think is very well-rounded people because, you know, they've seen that life isn't just necessarily like their bubble that they were living in in Canada.

[Richard Bexon]

Yeah, I mean, it's about teaching you those life skills that sometimes, you know, a typical school won't teach you. You know, I wish, you know, I always look back on my education and go, I wish someone would have taught me emotion intelligence and how to work with people and manage people because they teach you how to do profit and loss and balance sheets and history. But like when you get out into the real world, the application of that working with human beings, like, you know, like when you have a business, I mean, it's your greatest asset, but your greatest liability are the people that work with you, you know.

So like the management of people and how to work with them and like grow them and coach them, except like we were never taught any of that.

[Patrick Hiebert]

Exactly. Or even just the really practical fundamental things like how to change a tire on a car. Simple thing like that.

But you realize that when you're driving with some young person today, it's like, I don't know, I got a flat tire. I don't know what to do. And a simple example, but one of the things that, you know, we're teaming up with the expat school that's going to be on our communities.

And they've been more of an online school, especially in the last few years, obviously, but they're having brick and mortar schools inside our communities. And they're really all about that, right? It's a much more well-rounded, like, and especially in these communities, you're surrounded sometimes by jungles with macaw parrots and monkeys and things like that.

You know, what better field trip to just go outside of your school and start, you know, exploring and learning and maybe learning how to fish. Like you want to learn how to be sustainable? Well, here's how you put a lure on a line and catch a fish.

So there's a portion of the schooling that's, you know, put aside for that. And I think that's important. Things that are sort of lost in generations today, I think.

[Richard Bexon]

I agree. Well, I mean, you guys are looking to do your first product here in Costa Rica. I mean, why Costa Rica?

And, you know, I mean, what are you guys looking for in Costa Rica?

[Patrick Hiebert]

Well, we always try to give, you know, something for everybody. And, you know, like I said, we're in a lot of communities, a lot of countries in Central and beginning in South America now, and basically in the Latin American region. It's actually just coincidence that, you know, for whatever reason, Costa Rica and Panama, which are the two communities that we're creating, you know, designing as we speak, we're left to last.

I'm not sure. Honestly, I don't have a really good reason for that. I happened to end up in Nicaragua before Costa Rica.

So that's where we started. But obviously, Costa Rica is probably the most popular Latin American country for expats and tourism. It's only logical that we end up having a community there.

And we were looking on both the Pacific side and the Caribbean side of Costa Rica, probably have two communities on each side. And I think that's valuable to people that, you know, do live in our communities, get some perks in terms of being able to visit other communities of ours. And I love it in countries like Costa Rica and Panama, where it's very easy to, you know, to live on one side or the other, but visit the other sea on the other side.

And to me, that's a huge benefit to the countries as well. And like I said, it's, you know, it's just that Costa Rica offers a lot of great things, you know, the safety and all the different aspects of it. So, you know, Costa Rica has been on our map for a long time.

I just, you know, hadn't pulled the plug until now.

[Richard Bexon]

I think the timing is great. And again, there's a lot of people looking for community down here in Costa Rica. I think the number one thing that people look for, because you can build a nice home anywhere, but I think people are looking for, as I always say, their tribe, their community, you know, somewhere where they can be themselves.

And, you know, I mean, it's, it's, yeah, I mean, you know, it's the pandemic put everything in perspective and people just realized is that like, okay, you know, I'm, I need freedom. I want to be self-sustainable, you know, because you just never know what's going to happen.

[Patrick Hiebert]

Right. And like you said, with looking for community. And the other thing that we do is we blend with the surrounding community as well a lot.

Like there's a lot of involvement with the locals. We actually have a foundation that's called Help Them Help Themselves. And a lot of our residents in our communities get involved in, you know, in the foundation.

And they meet a lot of people that way too, but they also meet a lot of locals and the kids, you know, maybe, you know, one guy the other day was teaching guitar lessons in one of the local schools and like that. So there's a lot of involvement in different ways. And you, like I said earlier, you'll get to the point where, you know, you're going to take a night of the week and just say, you know what, this night's for me.

I'm busier than I was expecting to be, but it's a great lifestyle. And like my wife and I have a great lifestyle by being able to visit all these communities, you know, and so we're somewhat nomadic, you know, between the communities, but it's always great to go there and we have friends in each one.

[Richard Bexon]

Yeah. That's awesome. I mean, just to give the listeners an idea, because I'm sure that they are, there's like, this sounds great, but like, how much does it cost?

I mean, do we have like an idea of just a rough range here? I mean, maybe difficult to answer, but just like, hey, stuff's probably going to start at X.

[Patrick Hiebert]

Yeah. I mean, I would say like, you know, like I said, the tiny homes I think are a great start. We also have condominiums in many communities, and they're probably in the low 100s, 150 range, 100,000 US.

That's probably a pretty typical starting point. Of course, it can go to any size you want, if you want a massive estate, mansion, and, you know, big property that you can spend millions if you want. But, you know, that, I would say the typical range is somewhere in the two to $400,000 for, you know, a midsize home that's very, and we really like our designs, obviously.

We have our own architectural group, and, you know, you can look on our website at ecovillages.life to see some of the different home models. And, you know, we think, we do a lot of different styles. We do modern styles.

Spanish colonial is quite popular, obviously, in this region, Mediterranean styles. And so, it depends on, you know, whether they're in the islands or right on the beach and different things. But I think the homes are beautiful.

The homes are very self-sustaining, and, you know, with gray water reuse and things like that, where it makes sense. And like I said, the solar alternative energy systems to help save you money on, I prefer having zero power bill. And so, you know, my son and I started the company, and it was based on us living on a boat for a sailboat for a long time.

And, you know, in a boat, you're out in the ocean, and in this case, it was near Vancouver Island in the Pacific Ocean. And, you know, you can't, you don't have a long extension cord to your boat, right? So, you'd have to generate your own power.

You're on top of salt water, so you have to create your own potable fresh water with desalination. And, you know, all those things, you learn to conserve, and you also learn how to produce it. So, we just wanted to apply that to land.

And like I said, we're not fanatic about it, but it's always nice if you can have very low cost of living. You know, obviously, groceries in this part of growing your own food is a very low cost of living, but then if you can kind of nix your power bill and all that as well, you can get to pretty close to zero for a cost of living.

[Richard Bexon]

Yeah, definitely, definitely. Well, I mean, I think that's a very accessible price and a price point that a lot of people are looking for as well. Because, you know, I mean, especially here just in Costa Rica, I mean, there really is not much, you know, the $200,000 to $400,000 mark.

Everything is way up in the million, you know, $900,000 and up, or you've got some kind of shack somewhere, which is like $150,000. So, it's going to be nice, I think, to have that in the middle there.

[Patrick Hiebert]

Yeah, exactly. And, you know, we do want to have that, you know, for that price point for the community. I mean, obviously, there's a lot you can buy if you're looking at a $2 million budget, but there's not a lot you can buy quality at a $200,000 or $250,000 budget.

And, you know, like I said, we make, you know, solid concrete, very well built homes that'll be there hundreds of years from now. We try to keep them as low maintenance as possible and, you know, beautiful landscaping on beautiful property in a beautiful setting. So, it's a very unique proposal.

I think, you know, we've seen it be extremely popular, especially over the last few years.

[Richard Bexon]

Awesome. Well, my last question for you, Patrick, because I know that you're very busy, if you inherited $500,000 and had to invest it into a business or real estate in Costa Rica, what would you invest it in? I think I know the answer, but I'll ask you anyway.

Well, if you know the answer- One of your homes, for sure.

[Patrick Hiebert]

Well, I mean, obviously, I think, you know, we're going to see continued capital gains in the housing market for sure, especially in this region as people moving down in droves to it. But I think almost anything in the, you know, servicing expats moving in, you know, whenever you get a market that's growing this fast, whether you, you know, you want a little restaurant or, you know, yoga studio or whatever it is, you know, if you can, you know, even inside of our communities, we'll see like beachfront ones where they're starting, you know, surfboard or surf lessons or, you know, almost anything that caters to the influx of expats. And expats, as you know very well, expats used to be, you know, retirement, almost 100% was retirement age people that were looking to come down and just live out the rest of their life and in peace down in Costa Rica. Well, now it's becoming young families, right?

More digital nomad families or people COVID taught that to a lot of millions of people, right? With that, you know, if you were forced to live at home or work from home, you woke up one day and you realize, well, my home could be anywhere. It doesn't have to be in, you know, in Detroit, it could be in a nice, you know, community in Costa Rica.

So now we're seeing tons of families moving down that have the ability to do their work from home. And so any kind of business that caters to that group, I think is going to do very well.

[Richard Bexon]

I agree. I mean, I constantly see these kind of ancillary services as well that are necessary when you, you know, these communities are growing, but like everything from storage, dry cleaning, clothes shops. I mean, we hear it all the time on the podcast that we do, you know, so when people are like, you know, I always say to people, as they say, there is money in the street, guys.

You just need to figure out how to pick it up. You know, there is always opportunity, you know, and just ask 10 people. And if I always say, if two people give you the same answer, you know, it's probably a good idea.

[Patrick Hiebert]

Yeah, exactly. You know, when you hit the nail on the head, things like, you know, dry cleaning or whatever, that just isn't normally a thing in Latin America, clearly in a smaller community, but then people realize, well, they need it. And, you know, I mean, to me, it's a little bit like stepping back into the sixties or something, right?

And going, well, what would you start if you could go back 50, 60 years in time, right? And that, you know, you'd invent an iPhone or something probably, but if you were starting a business, maybe it's a gas station, who knows, right? But there's all sorts of things that as soon as you come down, you just, you get overwhelmed.

I think the toughest part is going, well, here's a 50 things that I could do, but which one am I going to pick? So I can focus on it.

[Richard Bexon]

Definitely. Definitely. Well, Patrick, thanks again for your time.

For anyone that wants to contact Patrick or Ecovillages, I'll put all the contact details in the description, but thank you very much for your time.

[Patrick Hiebert]

Appreciate it, Richard. It was great talking to you again and hope we can connect again soon.

[Richard Bexon]

Sounds good. Bye.

[Patrick Hiebert]

All right. Thank you.