188 Costa Rican Culture, Living and investing in Costa Rica with Rock Patterson

[Richard Bexon]

Good morning, Rock, how are you doing?

[Rock Patterson]

I am doing really, really good today. Very good, thank you.

[Richard Bexon]

No, I appreciate you coming here and joining us here on the podcast. I know that you spend quite a bit of time down here in Costa Rica, probably not as much as you'd like to, but I wanted to get you on here and kind of just get your viewpoint and see if we can give some of the, see if we can give some pointers to the guests that are looking to invest here or investing here and just get kind of your viewpoint.

[Rock Patterson]

Thank you, I'm honored. What little bit I can offer to the subject, I'm happy to do it, happy to do it.

[Richard Bexon]

Not at all. Well, I mean, the first question I'd like to ask is, you know, markets seem to have stabilized a little bit in 2024, I'd say markets have stabilized. Like, you know, I mean, I think some of them are at all time highs, but I mean, how has your volume of inquiries and work been in Q1, you know, compared to say Q1, 2023 or last year?

I mean, what are you seeing?

[Rock Patterson]

Due to my relationship with eXp, big, big company in the US and Canada and now all over the world, I just joined them about a year ago. And due to that and just basically everything still climbing out of COVID, it still seems that we should be talking about that, but especially in Costa Rica, it's just growing and growing on markets. The smaller hotels, luxury hotels, those types of things.

I think we have three small hotel chains or groups wanting, they're having a search for properties in all the popular places, all the key places along the Pacific and then Arenal and Fortuna, those places. But it's busy, we're active. We've got some big ones.

Those are a little bit slower, but it's strong. We're doing very, very well as far as a lot of activity, a lot of interest, they're keeping us busy. Why do you think there's all that activity and interest?

There's a lot of money in the US unspent. There's a lot of money there. I don't know your impression, but everywhere I go, it's US investment, it's US inquiries.

When I'm looking for a hotel, it's from a US investor or Canadian investor. There seems to be a lot of money they're looking to or needing to invest. And again, South Florida is still in our market and in our world, South Florida is still the favorite, but there's a lot of interest in Costa Rica just due to the dynamics of the country and the focus on ecotourism.

And I call it the 51st state. Whenever I talk about it in my US people, I would never tell that to the TECO audience, but to the US market, it's very attractive for US and Canadians. Our problem is finding the European.

This is one of those things I'm really, really focused on attracting the European investors. So that's our next project. Wow.

[Richard Bexon]

Well, I mean, I agree. There's just a lot of money sloshing around out there at the moment. They're just looking for a place to invest because I mean, what are your options?

I mean, real estate, you don't know where it's gonna go. The stock market's an all time high, interest rates are kind of holding. You've got an election at the end of the year.

There's just so much uncertainty and what investors don't like is uncertainty. And unfortunately, I don't think that's going to change anytime soon, whereas the certain thing about Costa Rica is, it's gonna be green. There's gonna be abundance of sun and great food.

And yeah, I mean, it's, as you said, I mean, yeah, it is kind of like a 51st state and just very secure.

[Rock Patterson]

People are surprised how secure it is. I still, that's the education part. Again, you do, you've been doing longer than me, is the education part that it is secure.

Now we've earned some negative things through the real estate industry, well-deserved things that I have to bypass or I have to clarify for folks, but it's clearing up, it's clearing up very well, at least for our use, for our clients, that type of thing that it's very, it's you're safe, it will be secure. Not so much safe from worry about crime, but just safe that when I invest there, I've got it. It's my property.

People still wonder if they have to lease or they can't own anything. And some of that confusion is still there, but it, I just, the future is very, very bright. I live in, I'm in Orlando right now.

And it is, between Orlando and Texas, it's a competition. Some of the less taxed states in the U.S. are just growing because of the volume of the North and the Northeast. So that's gonna spill over to us in Costa Rica.

[Richard Bexon]

I agree, I agree. I mean, from what you've seen, what do you think are the main mistakes that people make when investing in Costa Rica?

[Rock Patterson]

Trusting, not doing their homework. I, because you follow somebody on a YouTube channel or somebody like me, and I'm not big on Facebook. I'm not big on those things that a lot of folks are, and I'm not against those.

But the, the complaints I've gotten from agents and buyers for homes and things, they've just got hooked up with the wrong, the wrong people. And that the, they don't understand the market as far as here in the U.S. An agent, he's liable for a whole lot of things. We're selling our house here in Orlando and the documentation and that gentleman's license who's gonna list my home for me, it's huge.

He's liable for a whole lot of things. And so that's the biggest things. And it's weeding out.

I think it's weeding out. Again, I'm not in the weeds all the time on the residential. Yeah, I'm too much involved with the residential, but the investors now, they're wiser.

There's international people. They understand we've got a wonderful attorney that's part of our group and that's all. He's my, he's my safety.

He's my, he's my poppy. He's our gatekeeper. So that's how we do that.

That's been the issue I think in the past is people went right to an agent, assume the same regulations apply to an agent as they do in their country. And, you know.

[Richard Bexon]

There is no regulation here.

[Rock Patterson]

Zero. I tried to say it in a better word, but for that, and I tried not to mention names, but we're gonna maintain, my group, I'm a partner. And again, when I got Juan Pablo involved, our attorney, I just felt like, oh my goodness.

I'm gonna, his legal corp is, I just feel like I'm under the umbrella of, maybe not Jesus, maybe not Jesus, gonna keep us protected. So I'm- It comes up to me. There you go.

There you go. That's, and he is. Yeah, very diligent, service-oriented, international experience.

I'm safe. So I, again, I'm a ultra ethical guy anyhow, but that doesn't make me because I'm on your podcast. That doesn't make me ethical because I say I am.

So having him on there, having him part of our group makes all the difference in the world. And that's what I tell everybody again, not just him, but there's good attorney. Attorneys are excellent there, but- I think you said it, Rockies.

[Richard Bexon]

Realtors don't need to be licensed here, but realtors do, but lawyers do. Like notaries are part of the college of, the legal college here, notaries and lawyers, they can lose their license if they don't do something correctly. So getting a great lawyer here is really like a tiger rock.

[Rock Patterson]

It keeps the tiger- We've got two great engineers, Victor and Danny, they're two great engineers. A long time ago, Elisa Fernandez is a friend of mine for 10 years, I think now, learned a lot from her. And it's the same thing.

You get somebody like this, who's gonna inspect the place, who's gonna make sure that the grounds beneath it's not gonna shake, rattle and roll. You're gonna be on solid ground, literally. So that's my biggest thing when I'm talking with my EXP friends.

They think they know, but it's a little different of the world. But I also don't wanna scare them away because I do believe the potential and the lifestyle is worth, it's just as long as you find the right people.

[Richard Bexon]

I agree. I mean, there's a lot of opportunity down here, but there's also a lot of, I would say, mal-investment potential down here as well. And I think, as we've said here on our podcast a lot of times is, your project's only gonna be as good or your investment's only gonna be as good as the team that you have on it.

So, you really need to make sure that you have a great team and just be wary. I mean, I always say, trust, but verify everything.

[Rock Patterson]

That's just the way it is. And again, I don't mention, I don't discuss an agent unless they're in private, but we do, again, I'm very comfortable with us. First of all, our intentions are not gonna be that way, but you could also make a mistake by just not knowing or omission or something like that.

So, that's why, again, I am a master delegator. On our website, In Love With Costa Rica, I've got about two sentences talking about me because I don't know anything, but I know experts. I know the legal experts.

I know the engineer experts. I've got a financing expert, JC. So, introductions.

Hey, Rob. Make sure we take care of the customer.

[Richard Bexon]

The art of business is being a great middle man, Dave. It's the truth. So, it's the truth.

I mean, what do you think are some of the misconceptions that people have about Costa Rica? Oh, we laugh.

[Rock Patterson]

My wife, we laugh a lot because she lived in the city. So, her whole life is they think there's monkeys everywhere. There's still that image that nature's all over the place, that there's not really nice homes, that there's really not nice great neighborhoods, not just on the beach and five or $10 million Papagayo places, but every place is safe from wild animals.

I think that's one of the things. Roads, there's a little bit of that. And there's some truth.

There's a little bit of truth to that when you get out in the middle, but they're improving.

[Richard Bexon]

Rock, I've seen at the moment over the past six months, more improvements in roads than at any other time during my 20 years being here. Like, it's a mess at the moment because the diverting traffic, but it's gonna be worth it. Like, that pain is gonna be worth it.

I am thrilled.

[Rock Patterson]

My biggest corner was coming down from Alaoela, the highway, and making it, because we go to Hatio for family. Going, whatever that mess is, but you go straight to the Savannah and then you go, holy cow, they're building a new lane. I was like, and holy cow, and up where the free trade zone in Alaoela.

[Richard Bexon]

And in Coyo?

[Rock Patterson]

Yep, in Coyo right there. And that turn off, I got stopped one time, a cop was very nice to me because I cheated. I wasn't realizing it.

[Richard Bexon]

You went outside and tried to get in.

[Rock Patterson]

Hey, I've done it, Rock. We've all done it. I try not to, you know, because I was very polite with me.

He still gave me a mild warning, you know, a ticket warning. And I didn't do it again because it's like, don't be one of those jerks, Rock, you know? So anyhow, it is getting a lot better though.

[Richard Bexon]

I love the cops here. So I once got caught speeding. I mean, I was well over the speed limit, but I had my friend, I'd been fishing and I had my friend in the car and he's really hairy.

And it was a Sunday and the guy stopped me and he was like, dude, you were doing like 140 kilometers an hour. Like, I need a, it was in Coyo. He was like, I need to take your car away from you.

But like, why were you driving so fast? And I said, dude, what time is it? And he said, oh, it's like three o'clock in the afternoon.

And I said, man, I've got an hour before the zoo closes and I need to get him in his cage. And the guy just pissed himself. And like, then like, it was just like, dude, drive carefully, just go on.

Like, that's the beauty of Costa Rica, of like, it's all very relaxed.

[Rock Patterson]

Yeah, no, no, I, that's the only time I've driven there, never had an accident, never had even a ding. Yeah. And that's, that says something as much as I drive in the city.

But she always complains. My wife always complains about my driving there. She says, I'm turning into a Tico.

I'm a Tico, I'm a Tico. But it's like, you got to go with the flow.

[Richard Bexon]

I agree. You're fine. Adapt and survive, man.

I mean, if you, I mean, here it's hand on the horn and foot on the brake, you know, but like, it's, you have to adapt here to driving. I mean, it's very different, I think, outside like the beach areas, even though, you know, getting in and out of Tamarindo is a bit of a nightmare at the moment, but like, the city, there's traffic, you know, I mean, it's just how it's going to be, but they are working on improving it. Very, very much so, and I never honk.

I never honk, I never honk. Well, where do you think the market is going to go in 2024 here in Costa Rica, Rock?

[Rock Patterson]

Again, I'm a small, you know, we're very, very small, very boutique. We don't have any kind of big giant research department other than what I read. It's still, I was talking to one of your buddies, Joshua.

Joshua. It's still, still, it's still luxury. It's still small hotels.

I'm still getting asked for those. I'm still at, there's still a huge market for that. I know the big ones are still coming.

There's not a lot of great property anymore available for the large ones, but I'm- There is, there is.

[Richard Bexon]

You just need to know where it is.

[Rock Patterson]

Well, where they want to be. Sure, I mean, up in Papagayo or, you know. That's what I get.

Yeah. If you go, there is. And they're not as cheap as people hoped to get.

But you're right, there's quite a bit more as you get further, as you get towards the central. It is moving that way. But I think that's still that market.

But I mentioned our mutual friend is that, I still want to capitalize on that. What I say is the 51st state is that there's a huge market for seniors. There's a huge market for, I don't think luxury.

I think luxury is still gonna always be there, but I would just love to see a middle priced range for people that make it easier. It'll improve. That's what I see coming in the coming years, at least in the soon.

That's what I'm hoping for. I think that's what we're promoting.

[Richard Bexon]

The difficulty is, because I've operated hotels, I've got a bunch of friends that own them and run them, is just the costs are just so high. I mean, with payroll and then social security and the food costs. And now, the dollar to Cologne, meaning that like two years ago, it was nearly 700.

Today it's a 500. So, I mean, that's a 30% drop. It's probably like 23, 24% overall drop in.

The dollar has dropped against the Cologne like 23%. I mean, that's huge when it comes to construction. Your expenses just went up 23% as well.

But your income didn't go up 23% because you're charging in dollars. So, they've had to get kind of a lot smarter about cost control, but also is trying not to pass too much of that onto the client, because Costa Rica is expensive enough. It's like, it's expensive here.

[Rock Patterson]

I would agree. I, again, there's gotta be a, again, we don't think interest rates are gonna go. Actually, we think by the middle of the year, they're gonna be going down a little bit further down here.

It's gonna help everybody like that. I don't know what's that gonna do to our market in Costa Rica, but there'll have to be some adjustments. Again, I still, it's still very attractive from our folks.

I cannot talk some people out of it. Again, we've got three chains. They're not all American, but it's still a cost-effective.

It is high. It's expensive here for what we're used to, but it's still cost-effective labor versus labor in my, here. Labor here wants to work as well.

They work hard. When you, one of the things I try to promote too is the educated market and the willingness. There's a beauty.

This is the beauty. This is one of the beauty. It's an undersold is the people.

I've got nephews and nieces that just incredible, beautiful people wanting a good paying job, wanting to contribute. You know, just like it was 50 years ago in California when I was young, you know, they want the same thing, buy a home. They're not asking for much.

So like I said, that's, and the cost-effectiveness of labor is a lot. In fact, that's one thing I'm gonna start pushing more is even just manufacturing, getting in there. Well, it's not really in it for me.

I don't, maybe I guess I could sell a parcel of land, but I just love the country so much. That's why we promote it all over the place. I like everybody to try to get in there and take advantage of it because I've got family that need jobs.

[Richard Bexon]

Yeah. Well, I think that that's one of Costa Rica's most underrated assets is its people. And they don't get, we don't talk about them enough.

Like I overpay staff in my office. Like I'm constantly overpaying. The reason being is, you know, I've been in business before where I've lost key employees for a couple of hundred bucks.

And I was like, oh man, like, you know, I kind of believe that you should give those raises when they're earned rather than being like when they leave and then having, people should never be leaving basically.

[Rock Patterson]

No, no, that's leadership 101 that sometimes gets forgotten. And value, loyalty, value, it's not like you're buying loyalty, but people are there for, they are there for the darn paycheck. And there's still some of that old, there's still some of that old school mentality that maybe doesn't always treat their employees like they should.

And I always, whenever I see a public, you know, Promocore or Cindy, somebody talking about jobs, I try to add good paying jobs, right? I mean, I try to put something in there that says, don't lull American people. Come on, you're doing, you're gonna be doing good.

I know it's an investment, but don't be cheap.

[Richard Bexon]

If you nickel and dime, you're gonna get nickel and dime service. So, you know, I mean, they are the face of your business to your customer. So, you know, I mean, it's, yeah, look, I've been in the service industry, you know, my whole adult life.

So, you know, I have a philosophy here, which is just pay people well, treat them well, give them, you know, a wide berth of just give them a general direction. And people are smart, like people will work it out. And in this country, they're very well educated.

They speak great English as well. Like they will amaze you if you give them the opportunity to like, just guide them.

[Rock Patterson]

I could not agree. That's basic humanity. I think most people, I'm one of the, I come from a very Christian old, I was a minister a long time ago.

I was also in healthcare. I was also a director in healthcare for many, many years, California. And my last gig in Orlando was, I, what do we have 300, 300 plus employees.

And that's the top thing is serve. If serving leadership is the most important, it's just the most important thing. And that carries over into your business, to your customers, serve.

You'll get paid. You'll get, eventually you'll get paid. Sometimes you'll get burnt.

Sometimes you'll lose something. You know, you'll lose a nickel, but the value you bring when you serve people, when you serve your team.

[Richard Bexon]

We got off the subject a little bit, but very, very, very important. I'll end it just for any of the business owners out there by like the one thing that was always stuck with me my whole career is this. When somebody leaves a business, they're not quitting the business, they're quitting their boss.

So if a boss, if someone quits, it's a failure of whoever the manager was, not of the business always.

[Rock Patterson]

Dude, you're singing my song. It is turnover. Turnover was my top metric.

There's some turnover you want. It was good. It was good.

But I wanted everybody to project my heart and my heart is to serve and you can go out of your way. Again, I think that's what my group actually, what in love with Costa Rica, I think they're not my team, but that our group is serve. Serve first.

Commissions and things will come in later, but serve. Serve that client first, even if you lose a little bit the initial.

[Richard Bexon]

I agree. Well, I mean, what are some of the areas? I mean, you've talked about there that like it's very difficult, especially in the Northern Guadalcastra areas to kind of find properties.

It's very, I mean, what are the areas of Costa Rica that you still think have opportunity here?

[Rock Patterson]

I tell you, it's still the Pacific. It's still going down South of Tamarindo. And Gofitos getting, I've gotten, we've got a serious buyers looking in that, they want out in the middle of jungle.

They want a little more remote. Of course they always want beach front or- Which you can, a little bit more easy to get there. Yeah, you don't know.

And that's, it's out of our normal range, but we've got friends that help us and that's still got a lot all the way up, all the way up. There's a lot of room there for, I mean, all the way up to darn near Jaco. There's a lot of opportunity there.

I'm wondering when the central area is gonna get hit because there's some giant properties there on the beach.

[Richard Bexon]

It's still a little on the- You mean like Bajucos, the Rios, Parita, Palo Seco, those areas, like between Jaco.

[Rock Patterson]

Yeah, there's a few of those, I think, in the coming years because of just growth. I mean, I could see it, several hundred thousand new people coming in the next couple of years, wanting a place to live. So what are we gonna do?

And the primaries are just gonna go, they're gonna get out, they're gonna price themselves out, I think, but there's a lot of room. And then even up in the hills, everywhere, if you get a little bit away from the beachline, there's a lot of room there. That seems to be, I still am waiting someday because you know this probably better than me.

Limon, that Atlantic, the Caribbean coach is still, that's got to get tapped somewhere. That is, I know it's maybe, I'm talking 10 years away, but the beauty, I know traffic, I know there's a lot of issues. I know there's- They're improving the road.

[Richard Bexon]

It is, it is. They're investing a lot of money in that road.

[Rock Patterson]

I just see that as something in the next years.

[Richard Bexon]

I think there are a few things. I mean, I think when you say Limon, you mean like Puerto Viejo, Cahuita, Cochles, those areas. Just because, I mean, Limon, Limon is a port town, so it's not that beautiful.

And like, it's probably not a great town to do much in just because those port towns, I mean, are probably the most insecure areas in Costa Rica. It's Pontineras.

[Rock Patterson]

Is this? Yeah, it's that area. It's all port towns, you know, they're the two.

But I agree, I think that what holds it back is that when people think of Caribbean, they think of the Caribbean, if that makes sense, they don't think of Costa Rica. And I think that that's the thing, because if someone's looking to like, hey, I want to go to the Caribbean, they're not going, okay, Costa Rica's on the map, you know, it's Antigua, St. Bart's, you know, it's the Bahamas, like you've got all that Caribbean there. And so when pairing it with that, it's really difficult.

But if you've been to Costa Rica before, and you love it, and you're looking for like, I call it like the, you know, it's kind of if you took the Caribbean and Costa Rica and mixed it in a cocktail and then poured it out, that's what you'd have amazing food, like that relaxed Caribbean vibe, beautiful beaches, coral reefs, palm trees, like, it's just great. Like, I love it.

[Richard Bexon]

I could not agree more. Again, I but we can't even get Tico's. Well, I want to go there to want to visit there.

[Rock Patterson]

Look, I just had my friend Colin sell his hotel, but on a result due to a to a Panamanian group, like things are starting to move down there. There was a group from New York that I advised when they purchased a big, big piece of land down there that are doing a development like things are moving there for sure. But yeah, I mean, Costa Ricans like to go once kind of a year.

But it's, you know, it's the Caribbean. It's just so much easier. Everything's always been the Pacific.

You know, I mean, Costa Ricans are used to going to Punta Arenas, Jaco, Playa Del Poco, you know, 30 years ago. So it's still it's still there. Yeah.

You know, but well, you know, I was actually gonna ask you the question if you want to make a speculative plan over five to 10 years, but it sounds like the answer to that would be the more like those southern areas.

[Richard Bexon]

Is it anywhere else? Well, for real estate. Yeah.

I again, for something long term, I would think so. Oh, yeah, we've got something coming up in Arizona, near the volcano up there, that area, that's just gorgeous, just gorgeous. That's probably got there's probably going to be a need there.

Yeah, I don't know. I was up there this morning. Oh, good.

Good. Yeah. Gorgeous.

I I kind of go organic. I think you we're we're so small. I go where customers want us to go.

Somebody asks us and I find out if we can serve it or not, or if I can find something for them. And we go there. And that's just seems how our our little group has has grown.

It's been more organic, not nothing necessarily planned. But as as customers need, we've got something going on Playa Grande. Just it's been that way, more organic.

We do have some properties in the central area, but it's still not land is still not. Not a fast mover.

[Rock Patterson]

That's kind of I think if you're going to do anything commercial, you just need to have the water infrastructure, and that's the one thing that's lacking this country of like, you know, we're still not there.

[Richard Bexon]

Yeah.

[Rock Patterson]

I mean, commercial water lettuces like Playa Grande needs commercial space. It's not getting commercial space because there's no water lettuce for it. Flamingo needs a little they're going to get a little bit, but that's it.

But Tamarindo is not issuing water like commercial water. It's just not it's kind of what's there is not coming. And I think that the water infrastructure really restricts supply and keeps kind of as long as the demand is there.

So prices keep going up. Yeah, you're exactly right. I'm not sure it's intentional at all.

I don't think it is. I think it's just, you know, yeah, bureaucracy.

[Richard Bexon]

I think that's the big word.

[Rock Patterson]

I mean, that's the beauty of this country. Like none of that stuff is planned. It just happens.

Like I always say that Costa Rica just woke up one day and went, wow, we've got penicillin, like all these decisions that they made getting rid of the army, you know, creating, you know, a social security system here, creating the national park system, you know, really focusing on ecotourism and attracting investors. You know, all of these things weren't planned. It just kind of happened.

[Richard Bexon]

But they're leaders in some of these. They're leaders.

[Rock Patterson]

Correct. Yeah. I mean, it was one of the first countries in the world to have like street lighting, like San Jose, I think was country number three, I think, in the world behind Paris and London, or maybe New York or something to have streetlight like electric street lighting.

[Richard Bexon]

I've seen the photos I've seen. I said, it's those things just whatever. Wow.

I love it.

[Rock Patterson]

Well, Rock, my last question for you is I'm sure my wife is waiting because of my daughter's 11th birthday today. So I have an afternoon of bouncing. So yeah, but take care.

Take care. If you inherited $500,000, and you had to invest it into a business or real estate in Costa Rica, what would you invest it into? Rock and why?

[Richard Bexon]

I'm going to say something outside of real estate. One of the things I would do would be perhaps buy something and Catalinas or Tamarindo Park, something like that, lease it out I'll go something a little bit different. It came up on us a few weeks ago.

Thermal energy storage solutions tests. It is I've got to do a better job. Maybe this opportunity to help.

I've got to do a better job announcing that product. It is the most carbon-free energy. I'm not an engineer at all.

It is the revolution. It's going to revolutionize electricity and that it would be just so perfect. If I could get somebody to buy one thing for some of the solar farms, they would attach one of these things.

There are a few of these things. It increases their energy output. It stores energy.

So we don't have all these up and down in Costa Rica, outs and the inconsistency, that kind of thing. I just was reading, checked in on the news yesterday. Virginia is the data center capital of the United States.

It's near Washington, D.C. So I'm sure that's why I did it. They're dying because they're pulling all the electricity from the grid. I thought I wish I knew somebody because this company, they're out of Canada.

It's a phenomenal company, TESS. I'll give you that one. I would get something there and that would just explode carbon-free and all that.

That'd be one of my fun things.

[Rock Patterson]

I like that. It's a first on the podcast, but I definitely like it. Again, as you said, Costa Rica is a leader in this stuff.

So why not?

[Richard Bexon]

For large buildings, it stores from heat, not from the sun. It stores the energy from heat. So large buildings can be their own grid.

Like I said, I'll have to introduce you to one of the guys, Evan, to be on the podcast. He's amazing technology.

[Rock Patterson]

Wow. Well, Rock, this has been great. I really appreciate you taking time out of what I know is a busy time here on the podcast.

I'm sure we'll get you going again in the future. We will do it. Happy birthday.

Enjoy the party. Enjoy the party, boss.

[Richard Bexon]

Thank you, man. Thanks for having me.