Introduction
Richard Bexon: Good. It’s raining here in Costa Rica at the moment. I don’t know how it is. How is it in Guatemala?
Scott Oliver: It’s a picture perfect day. Although, yes, it is the rainy season, but today’s gorgeous.
Richard Bexon: Wow. Well, Scott, very much appreciate you coming on the podcast. I think it’s the first time that we’ll be talking about Guatemala on the podcast. I think we’ve talked Colombia, Ecuador, Panama, and also Mexico before, but the first time that we’ll also touch on Guatemala. So it’s. I’m looking forward to this one.
Scott Oliver: Good. Well, we’re happy to be here. Obviously, we’re not neighbors, but we’re very close countries here in Central America. So, yes, I’m looking forward to chatting.
Market Stability Comparison
Richard Bexon: Awesome. Well, Scott, I mean, I think there’s been. I would say I think there’s been. There’s been some volatility in Western markets recently. You know, I think that that looks like it’s probably here to. To stay for the foreseeable future. But I mean, what do you see happening. What do you see happening in Guatemala at the moment?
Scott Oliver: Guatemala is a fairly unique beast as far as volatility is concerned. It’s an incredibly stable market, both from a currency standpoint as well as the real estate market. Costa Rica obviously has had some phenomenal boom years, but it is a lot more. A much more volatile market than Guatemala is in every way, which is not to say one is better than the other. But the Guatemalan currency itself is probably the most stable currency in Central and Latin America. If you look at it historically against the US Dollar, it’s just about the same it is now as it was 20 years ago. So a lot of people feel comfortable with that. But real estate market, the returns here in Guatemala are not as attractive as they historically have been in Costa Rica, but they have been a lot more stable.
Safety Perceptions vs Reality
Scott Oliver: Yeah, I think it’s I mean, a lot of people that come to Costa Rica, I always say you need to go to Guatemala, like, it is beautiful, like it’s spectacular and has just as good coffee as Costa Rica as well. I’m sure the Guatemalans would say it’s better, and I’m sure the Costa Ricans would say it’s better, but we’ll leave that. But, yeah, I mean, I think the thing that has people, I would say, a little worried about Guatemala is just like, safety. That makes sense, you know, because, I mean, do you think that that’s a concern that they need to have? Because here in Costa Rica, I would say that you don’t really need to worry about that much.
Scott Oliver: Well, just to touch on the coffee aspect of things, don’t tell my wife this, but I actually prefer Costa Rican coffee to Guatemalan coffee. But we do produce, like, twice as much coffee as Costa Rica. But with regards to the safety aspect, I wrote an article about this many years ago in Costa Rica. As you know, I was there for 20 years. And the same thing applies here in Guatemala. If you’re not involved in the sale, the production, or the distribution of illegal drugs.
Richard Bexon: Yep.
Scott Oliver: In Costa Rica or in Guatemala, you can live a very comfortable life. I mean, it really is that simple. Needless to say, there are areas where, you know, you probably wouldn’t want to live in Costa Rica, and there are areas where I wouldn’t want to live in Guatemala or any other major city in the United States or in London, for that matter. But what I do find interesting at the moment is that while the First World appears to be deteriorating into Third World status, it’s the Third World countries which is not really diplomatically correct. We’re supposed to call them LDCs, less developed countries. It’s less developed countries like Costa Rica and Guatemala that seem to be improving dramatically. More and more people seem to be fleeing from the First World countries into places like Costa Rica and Guatemala. And obviously, we’re happy to help those people that do want to come here.
Richard Bexon: Yeah, I mean, you know, I always say to people, like, look, we’re just getting started here in Costa Rica, but, like, everything is new. Like, this was a fresh canvas that we’re kind of building here. And I’m sure it’s very similar in Guatemala. Like, you know, the uk, which we’re both from, is very old. Changing stuff over there is very difficult to do.
Scott Oliver: Well, we probably shouldn’t get political, but of course, yeah. I mean, you and I have both seen some horrendously dramatical dramatic changes in the United Kingdom when it comes to demographics. And unfortunately, we’re seeing similar changes being forced on our friends up north in the United States of America. And this is, you know, not by accident, this is a deliberate plan, but unfortunately these things are actually benefiting us because people from the UK and Europe and the United States and Canada are looking for a plan B. They’re looking for a place where they can live affordably and a climate that is infinitely more comfortable than the uk. And we spoke the other week when you were in the UK and you were freezing your.
Richard Bexon: Oh, yeah. Behind us.
Scott Oliver: Yeah, exactly. And here, you know, Guatemala is called the land of eternal Spring for a very good reason. And that is like Costa Rica to a certain extent. You can choose your climate by choosing the elevation. And I mean, I think the climate where we are here is absolutely bloody perfect. I mean, we’re at the same sort of elevation as, as Denver, Colorado. And it’s just, it’s gorgeous all year round. November and December. Yeah, it’s a little chilly, but you know, we’re designed for that anyway.
Richard Bexon: Exactly. I mean, when you say a little chilly, what’s chilly nowadays, Scott? Because, you know, Chile for me is like under 18 degrees Celsius.
Richard Bexon: Okay, well, here in early December it was, I think, seven degrees.
Scott Oliver: Okay, okay.
Richard Bexon: So, I mean, but it’s a chilly bit. We have a big beautiful fireplace, so it didn’t bother us too much.
Scott Oliver: But it’s like a, it’s a, like a dry chili, not like a damp English chili.
Richard Bexon: Well, yeah, that’s the thing. I mean, I remember I was in the Royal Marines Commandos for years in the UK and you know, we used to do these exercises in Wales and Brecon beacons and we did a lot of mountain arctic warfare stuff up in Scotland and in Norway. And yeah, that kind of cold that literally seeps into the marrow of your bones is not something I ever want to feel again. And that’s not something that you would have here in Guatemala. Well, unless you go up to the, the real highlands. You know, there’s, there’s areas in the highlands of Guatemala called Nueva. Of course, yeah. New Scotland.
Scott Oliver: Wow.
Richard Bexon: I haven’t been there yet, but they’ve got plenty of lambs, so I do plan on going.
Scott Oliver: Wow. Wow, New Scotland. Love it, Love it. I mean, you, you just mentioned you spent 20 years here in Costa Rica. You know, I mean, and I’m a little concerned at the moment that we’re going to start to see some malinvestments, start to kind of Shake out here, you know, potentially here in Costa Rica. But, but I mean, what are some of the ways that you’ve seen that people have just made bad investments during your time when you were here?
Avoiding Common Investment Pitfalls
Richard Bexon: Well, there are a thousand bad things that people have done, unfortunately, normally caused by fellow countrymen. When I wrote my first book, one of the first chapters was all about when it sounds too good to be true. And for many, many years there were various real estate groups, big boiler room operations, advertising ocean view land that didn’t really have an ocean view. And we’re talking dozens of dozens of these different groups spending absolutely enormous amounts of money on lead generation. One particular group which I was vociferously against, called Paragon Properties of Costa Rica, made my life absolute bloody hell in a variety of ways, threatened my life in a variety of ways because I was warning people off them. But these weren’t Tecos. These were Americans working out of boiler rooms in Florida. And they were spending fifty plus thousand dollars per month on Google Ads in the days when Google Ads were cheap. And they ripped off tens of thousands of people again selling ocean view land that didn’t actually have the ocean view. And at one point I think they ended up having 12 different projects with three completed homes on all 12 combined.
Scott Oliver: Wow.
Richard Bexon: And that was just one group. And apart from that, there were also a numerous amount of investment pyramid schemes going on and I wrote about them too. And funny enough, the head of one of them called me one day, so I should, I don’t know if you, you saw this book, My Costa Rica’s Guide to Making Money Offshore. In that book I spoke about this investment program and he called me up the lead guy, I’m not going to mention his name because that would probably cause even more problems for me. But he called me up when I was in the line for reteve for the car test and he’s saying this is so and so I’m speaking to you because you’ve been saying things about my company and if I found out that they’re not true, I will use them, every measure of the law to take action. And I’m in my car and I’m waiting for the car test. Nothing quite clicked at the time. And I think oh my God, this is the guy. But I mean in the end they collapsed like all the other investment scheme collapsed. I should point out I spent 10 years on Wall street also, so I’ve got a fairly good background of what’s possible and what’s not with various sophisticated investment programs which these people Claim to be so. Unfortunately, Costa Rica’s had a bad rap because of those various scams. But as long as people are dealing with trustworthy professionals, they should be in very good hands. Obviously, your company provides a very valuable service in making sure that they are dealing with professionals. They are dealing with people that understand land, people understand valuation, people understand construction. And as long as people are taking that professional advice, not listening to, you know, some dickhead that calls them on the telephone selling them land, then they should be okay.
Scott Oliver: Yeah, I mean, it’s been a while since we’ve heard about those kind of those like, you know, those boiler room, you know, I think it’s a. It’s, you know, I mean, in the 90s and early 2000s, there were a.
Richard Bexon: Lot of sports books here.
Scott Oliver: You just don’t see them here anymore. You know, Costa Rica’s, I would say, somewhat cleaned up its act and it’s become a little bit more mainstream and mature. But, you know, I mean, how would you go about, though? Because, I mean, there are a lot of people out there that seem trusting. I mean, what are some of the questions or some of the research that you would do to just to find out whether, you know, they are decent?
Richard Bexon: Well, that’s the problem, is it? The best con artists are very trusting.
Scott Oliver: Yeah, true.
Richard Bexon: And I don’t know if you know this, but some of the most valuable lists that are out there for people to buy for sales and marketing are people that have already been conned. And they’re expensive because they know they’ve already been conned and it’s not that difficult to conn them again. Yeah, but what I find fascinating, especially during that period of time, was people were willing to spend 25, 50, whatever grand it was to buy for their little plot of land, and they did less research on that little plot of land and the people behind it than they would do when they would buy a refrigerator, which frankly, is insane. But we’ve seen numerous examples of that over the past four or five years with an experimental medical product that people did no research on and trusted, supposedly the expert experts out there, Those experts have obviously proven to be absolutely, completely untrue and were lying through their teeth. And when you are dealing with, obviously, people that are selling land, when you’re dealing with developers, it’s not that difficult to actually look into the developer. It’s not that difficult to speak to an attorney and say, look, you know, do a little bit of research here. You know, I’ll send you some money, do some background, make sure this Land is truly land that is available for purchase, you know, because just like Costa Rica, there are some parts of Guatemala a foreigner can’t buy. There’s not many, but you know, you have obviously land in Costa Rica near the waterfront that you can’t possibly own. There are also other minor factors where you can’t purchase land, but that’s where again, trusted advisors, trusted attorneys are absolutely essential in this type of a thing, as they are in very many other aspects of life.
Scott Oliver: Yeah, I find a lot of people sometimes are kind of like penny wise, pound foolish when it comes to like, I don’t want to get all the studies done and really do I have to spend that amount of money, you know, to have the lawyer do all the background checks? And then, you know, I mean, topography studies, soil studies, river setbacks, you know, if it’s got trees on it, like if you want to, you know, potentially take down a tree for a building or something, a forestry engineer. But it’s, it is crazy sometimes, you know, because we sometimes engage with clients after they fought land and it’s like, well, did you get any of that stuff done? It was like, well, no, we didn’t. Like, nobody told us we need to get that done. What do you mean no one told you need to get that done? Any smart lawyer is going to tell you we need those things done.
Richard Bexon: Well, yeah, and the other big factor, which obviously you do know is the vast majority, I’m assuming the vast majority of clients, your clients from North America, are they.
Scott Oliver: Yeah, North America or from Europe. Yeah.
Richard Bexon: Okay. So whether it’s North America or whether, whether they’re Brits, for example, their legal system is based on common law. So you know, they may have bought 50 properties up there, they may have built lots of homes up there, but it’s a completely bloody different legal system. So if you’re willing to take the risk of trying to develop property, trying to buy a property, trying to build a home, and you know that you’re doing this in a country where the legal system is completely and totally different. Sorry, you’re an idiot.
Scott Oliver: Yeah.
Richard Bexon: Okay. So, you know, it is a completely different legal system. Obviously the uk, most of the, all of the United. Well, not most of the, most of the United States, I think Louisiana, not, I think Louisiana is Napoleonic law in Canada, I think Quebec is Napoleonic law. But everything else is based on common law. So it’s a completely different system of law. I would strongly encourage you to seek professional advice that understands those differences because as you also know my real estate book many years ago was how to buy Costa Rica real estate without losing your camisa, losing your shirt. Okay? So I mean, if you want to lose your shirt, by all means, go ahead, think you can do it yourself and try to do it yourself. The odds are you will lose your shirt and maybe your underwear too. So get real trusted advice, ideally from somebody that perhaps you’ve recommended an attorney that you know and trust and then move forward in a careful, obviously prudent way.
Scott Oliver: Yeah, I always say to lawyer, I always say to anyone looking to invest in Costa Rica, it’s caviar emptor buy of aware hit. You know, you need to do everything because as soon as you buy it, there’s no recourse. Or there is, but it could take forever.
Richard Bexon: Yep. And the other thing, of course that happens a lot in Costa Rica, I haven’t actually come across it too much here is that sobre precio that you have in Costa Rica where, you know, the seller says to the realtor, look, you know, you get me 200,000 bucks for this land and what have you got on top of that is yours. Yeah, clearly that’s not something that most of Americans or Brits are accustomed to. You know, most, most of America, you can buy your land, 200,000 bucks or whatever is, and you’ve got your 5 or 6 sales commission in Costa Rica on a fairly regular basis, depending obviously on the realtor you’re dealing with. And let’s also remember realtors is a trademark term. So we should be saying real estate salesperson or real estate scam artist. So, you know, the real estate, or the unscrupulous real estate guy says, okay, he wants 200,000. I’m going to put it for 250. If the guy pays 250, I’ve just made 50 grand instead of my usual 5%, which is 10. So that obviously is something that people also have to bear in mind. And the other thing people have to bear in mind, obviously is those little cross cultural differences. And just because Atiko, or in my case Guatemalteco, Guatemalan, speaks good English, doesn’t mean to say they’re thinking the same way that you do. Okay, so I’ll give you an example. My wife and I, we built a number of like holiday homes in the mountains of Costa Rica up in Santa Maria de Dota and Quebradillas de Dota, Jardin de Dota. We ended up, I think we built five or six different sort of log cabin style homes, which we love. But there was one particular place where we wanted to buy. And there was a beautiful plot of land. I can’t remember the prices now. Let’s call it 35 grand. Long time ago. And there was another lot beside it which was a little bit too close for comfort. And it would have been perfect to buy the. By the two of them. So the guy wanted 35 grand for one of them, and I figured, okay, how about we offer him a little bit less and we take both of them? Okay. Because that’s how our minds work. So I went back and I said, look, okay, I’m delighted that you’re willing to sell this to us for 35 grand. But we’re wondering if we bought those two, would we be able to get both of them for 50 grand? I’m obviously being aggressive with my pricing. And he said, well, let me talk to my father and I’ll get back to you. He came back to us with $120,000 for the two of them.
Scott Oliver: Yeah, I’ve seen that a lot, man. It’s crazy sometimes.
Richard Bexon: Hello.
Scott Oliver: It makes no sense.
Richard Bexon: Anyway, those two plots of land, I’m told, are still available.
Scott Oliver: Wow. Wow. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it’s, you know, sometimes people hear something that something sold at some price somewhere, and then that’s what they’re going to sell their land for. Whereas, you know, I mean, what’s the price of something? It’s. Well, it’s worth what someone’s willing to pay for it.
Richard Bexon: Yeah.
Scott Oliver: You know, ultimately. But I mean, where have you seen. Because again, you spend a lot of time, you spent a long time here in Costa Rica. What have been some of the best investments that you’ve seen in the country?
Costa Rica Investment Success Stories
Richard Bexon: Well, we bought a number of apartments in pre construction. They turned out to be very good for us. I mean, we’ve sold a couple of them, but we kept most of them for income purposes. And those worked out very well. And those were in Santa Ana, obviously, just outside of San Jose. We also have helped many investors, obviously to invest in a variety of properties in Costa Rica. We helped, I mean, literally thousands of people to move to Costa Rica and thousands of people to buy property. Not all of us personally, I’m not a realtor. I’ve never been a realtor. I don’t want to be one. But my wife was probably one of the best realtors in the Central Valley area, certainly most successful. But we had a network of realtors around the country, people who I felt were the best at what they do, which is probably like the top 0.01% since 98% of them have absolutely no clue. So lots of people made money based on buying land. And the same parts that you guys have been recommending out near the coast, they’ve done very well. We also had people do very well. I mean, I don’t know if you know Becky up there on the coast, she’s also, yeah, she’s also done very well obviously developing property, both homes as well as strip malls. So I mean, depending on somebody’s risk tolerance, depending obviously on the investment, on the amount that they’re willing to invest. I think there’s still numerous opportunities in Costa Rica but obviously the prices are very different compared to what they used to. I mean, when I got to Costa Rica in 1999, I mean you could buy two, three properties in Costa Rica for the price of one in Florida. Now you can buy two or three properties in Florida for the price of one in Costa Rica.
Scott Oliver: Yeah, it’s definitely changed, that’s for sure. When do you think it was that it started getting expensive? You reckon it was after CAFTA or because it used to be affordable?
Richard Bexon: Well, yeah, it did. I mean, Costa Rica obviously has a different set of problems, thankfully for me in Guatemala, because your inflation rate is higher, your debt rate is significantly higher. You know, Costa Rica for example, is, it’s like half the size comparatively in land size. But we’ve got, Guatemala’s got like five times as many people population wise. But Costa Rica has actually more government employees than Guatemala does.
Scott Oliver: That doesn’t surprise me.
Richard Bexon: Yeah, well, it’s sad but I mean all of those factors obviously do mean something. That means the cost of living is going to be a little bit higher. But I mean for us, the website that I had at the time, which I loved was my baby for probably, I guess 16 years before I sold it, that started to change or the whole attitude started to change and prices big time started to change. I would say around about the 2009, 2008 crisis, things started to get really odd because there’s, I mean, although the Costa Rica real estate market has been fairly stable, it is more volatile than Guatemala’s. But it’s not as volatile as the United States. Obviously it’s all local. But you know, there are certain areas in the United States where prices have been so insanely volatile it’s difficult to believe. And obviously now, for example in Florida we’ve got some very serious problems with real estate prices there. So there’s lots of moving parts. But at the end of the day it’s a great plan B. Whether it’s Costa Rica Whether it’s Guatemala and with what’s going on in the United States, with what’s happening in Europe and the United Kingdom, I think intelligent, freedom minded people who truly want to avoid the matrix are looking at our countries as a good plan B. Yeah, I agree.
Scott Oliver: I mean, Portugal seems to be jumping on there a little bit as well. I think that might be a little overdone. I think it’s starting, people are starting to pull back from that. But I definitely know in Latin America, Guatemala and Costa Rica is definitely on their end, Mexico as well. But I mean, what are the main differences, would you say from Guatemala to Costa Rica? Like house, cost of living, how you know, I mean, what would you say the main differences are?
Cost of Living and Construction Advantages
Richard Bexon: Well, there are many. The cost of living is most definitely much more affordable here. It will depend on the area. I mean, obviously most people have heard of Antigua, which is the, the old colonial city been around since the 1500s. It is a magnificent place. I mean anywhere, anywhere I go where I can’t stop taking photographs for me is like fantastic. And no matter where I go in Antigua and I’ve been hundreds of times, and I lived there for six months, depending on the light of day, I’m taking the same bloody picture, you know, for the fifth time, sixth time, tenth time. So in and around Antigua, your cost of living is still cheaper than Costa Rica? Than Costa Rica, but it is probably the most expensive area in Guatemala. Okay, even more expensive than Guatemala City itself. But I would suggest that the actual living expenses, food, et cetera, et cetera here is probably about 30% of Costa Rica.
Scott Oliver: Wow, that’s a big difference.
Richard Bexon: It is a big difference, but it’s also lifestyle related. I mean, when you go to the different towns, whether it’s Chichi Castanengo or Antigua or Guatemala City where I am, there’s nearly always a real market. I mean a real market with real people, not a mall, a real market where you can buy your groceries for, I mean, pennies compared to what you typically buy them in the big supermarkets. So that’s one thing. The minimum salary in Costa Rica is about twice what it is in Guatemala. So obviously labor costs here are very much lower. So your cost to build here will be very much lower than it would be in Costa Rica. The cost to buy something here is certainly lower than it is in Costa Rica. And depending on the area, again, Antigua’s a bit of a different market, but it is cheaper than Costa Rica. But here, for example, we built a home here in a very good area. This is a fairly Exclusive golf club, residential community. We built for $666 per square meter. Per square meter. And this is a very nice home.
Scott Oliver: I mean, probably. I mean, if it’s a very nice home, would cost over $3,000 a square meter here in Costa Rica.
Richard Bexon: Well, I mean, we obviously helped build a lot of homes in Costa Rica. I think this we could probably build. Well, the last home we built was in Vallad El Sol. Rather larger home than where we are right now, but I think we could probably build this one instead. And that did. Sorry, that doesn’t include land cost, by the way, but 666 here, I think we could probably have done it there for maybe nineteen hundred dollars, something like that. Okay, so it is very different, but just the same as in Costa Rica. I’m sure you tell your clients this. If you’ve got the wrong builder, you’re screwed from day one.
Scott Oliver: Yeah, you are.
Richard Bexon: We were very lucky here. We found an absolutely incredible maestro de Obra, the foreman, and his team of builders. I mean, if we’d had this guy in Costa Rica, I would have made billions of dollars in Costa Rica with him. But we didn’t have him in Costa Rica. But we were very lucky here. And I mean, we’ve obviously got a network like you of people here in Guatemala that could help people that want to build. I’m not sure if it’s going to be that price. Obviously it depends on people’s tastes and everything else. But costs are significantly lower here.
Scott Oliver: Yeah, it’s funny that you said that just because I had someone contact me the other day that was like, hey, Rich, I don’t think I need your help anymore. I’ve bumped into a good builder and I think everything’s going to be great. And I was like, look. And I sent her a. I sent them a sheet of like. Here is a spread of five different builders to give you an idea on just a recent build that we did. We went out to bid and it was 800 to 1.35 million. That was the spread. I’m like, your builder could be that 1.35 million person. They could also be the $800,000. But you don’t know that because you’ve got no perspective, you know? So just going with one makes no sense, you know? So, yeah, I mean, it’s just crazy when people are just like, no, no, I found a good guy. Like, he seems cool. And I’m like, yeah, they all seem cool when it kind of begins and, like, trustworthy. But it’s the management of the money where it all goes wrong, man. And like even we come across it in some of our builds. Like we have a build at the moment, which is a key in hand build where we’re in the last 90 and the guy comes to us and goes, rich, I need another 100 grand to finish this. And it’s like, well, you want to Batman, It’s a key in hand. Like that’s your problem, you know. So we’ve had to basically rip everything from him in order to de risk the project for the client. And the client has to pay directly to all the vendors and be like, look, you need to still install this stuff. But like, you are not touching money anymore, you know.
Richard Bexon: So. Yeah, no, it’s, it’s sad. I mean, but then again with, with this part of things, if somebody does have building experience elsewhere, that will certainly be useful if they plan on building in Costa Rica or in Guatemala, but they need to be there all the time. They can’t, you know, they can’t do this sitting in their home in Calgary, Canada, thinking, you know, the guy’s going to send me photographs every month that everything’s going to be okay. So that’s the first thing. The second thing of course is, you know, that price per square meter could involve all sorts of different things and you could get two very different qualities for the exact same price per square meter. That’s one thing. And obviously the same applies to the architect. Some architects are good, some architects absolutely suck. You know, they don’t know that in this particular sector the rain comes like this. And you know, if you don’t have a proper structure over your windows, you know, you’ve got window open one inch and you’ve got a flooding in your bloody living room. So at every step of the way you need to make sure that you’re doing business with the best possible professionals again, people that hopefully have been highly recommended by others and not your taxi driver’s sister’s boyfriend.
Scott Oliver: Yeah, I’ve heard that a few times.
Richard Bexon: Of course.
Guatemala’s Cultural Richness
Scott Oliver: What do you think is, I mean, what do you like about Guatemala? Like what, what, what? Just really, you know, because again, you helped a lot of people move to Costa Rica. Now you’re helping people move to Guatemala. I mean, why that change? And like, I mean, why focus on Guatemala? If you don’t mind me asking, Scott?
Richard Bexon: Oh, not at all. Well, I don’t know if I mentioned this to you, but my wife is from Guatemala. We did actually meet in Costa Rica in multiplaza because her family had stores. I Went into multiplaza to buy a pair of boots and she helped me and the boots lasted a year and she’s still with me. So at some stage it was, you know, we were destined to come back here. She has her brother here, her sister’s here, her mother was here for obviously a long time. She’s since passed away. She has a daughter here and two grandchildren. And in Costa Rica she has two sons and three grandchildren. So she goes to and from Costa Rica and Guatemala all the time. I stay here. I want to stay here. I like staying here. But having said that, just from a personal standpoint, there’s also a very big difference between Costa Rica and Guatemala. There are two very different markets. I believe Guatemala has infinitely more color and culture. I mean, we have like 7 million indigenous Indians living in Guatemala, which is more than the entire population of Costa Rica plus the regular population. So I think it’s about 14, 15 million in total population. But that color and culture, which is easy to see throughout the country for me is incredibly exciting, you know, with their different festivals, etc. We’ve got 24 indigenous languages in Guatemala, whereas in Costa Rica, I think there’s four indigenous languages and two are shared with Panama, so there’s really only two. And in Costa Rica, people are really ashamed of the indigenous population, whereas here you can’t be ashamed of half the population. It’s a very big part of the country. And there are some, I mean, some really interesting little places that you go to in Guatemala that are, I mean, obviously purely, you know, indigenous people where you wouldn’t misbehave because, you know, you might get hung. And I do mean that seriously. So that, for me is exciting. It’s a real color, it’s a real culture, which Costa Rica does not have. And if people appreciate trying to become a part of a real culture and a real community, I think Guatemala certainly wins hands down over Costa Rica. Having said that, if you’re a beach bum and you love to be at the beach and you love to swim and you love to surf, I think probably Costa Rica beats Guatemala hands down there.
Scott Oliver: Yeah, yeah. Again, I mean, it’s just you mentioned Guatemala has a lot of color and you can just see that instantly when you arrive there. I mean, it’s just, especially Antigua. I mean, it’s. I go back every year to Antigua.
Richard Bexon: It’s just.
Scott Oliver: It’s one of the most beautiful places on the planet for me.
Richard Bexon: Well, if. I mean, just for your viewers, I mean, if, if you never even considered living in Guatemala, that’s no problem. But as far as I’m concerned, as a photographer who’s lived in 12 countries all over the world, if you don’t come to Antigua, Antigua for Holy Week or Semana Santa, you are literally missing one of the wonders of the world is absolutely insane. It’s spectacular. Yes. It’s busy. Yes, there are a lot of people, but the color and the opportunity for photographers, for photographs, for videos is just mind blowing.
Guatemala City Development Boom
Scott Oliver: Wow. Where do you think the investment opportunities in Guatemala? I mean, a lot of people that listen to this podcast are looking for investment opportunities, of course, outside of their home country. But where do you think it lies in Guatemala at the moment?
Richard Bexon: Well, again, like you would probably say to people, depending on the investment, depending on your risk tolerance, depending on how much involvement you want to have in that particular investment, we have obviously the same options that you do in Costa Rica. There are various returns depending on, you know, the places that you live in. Again, Antigua is a very touristy area, so there’s not going to be much manufacturing around there. There’s not many bodegas or anything like that you could be investing in. But land certainly could be profitable, although people are asking pretty insane prices there. So you need to understand the valuations. If you’re looking for really cheap land, you could go up to Peten, which is northeast of the country, where you can find much more affordable land than you would obviously around the capital area or in the Antigua area, Xela, or as the proper name is Quetzaltenango, you can still buy land there at reasonable prices. So there are still great opportunities here. The capital city here is going, I mean, to a mind blowing extent. I mean we, we probably have more skyscrapers going up here than Costa Rica has built in the past 10 years. And I mean, right now it’s just insane. So here, depending on the zone, because the capital is divided into different zones, Zona una, Zona dos, Zona tres. Up to, I think it’s 16, 17, 18. The most exclusive areas would be 15 and 16 and some areas of Zona Diaz there at the moment you can buy apartments for between 1500. I mean, nice apartments, I’m not talking about just shells, nice apartments for about 14, 1500. Up to $2000 a square meter. Yeah, so that I think is quite reasonable. In comparison with many places, there are obviously much more expensive places. My own apartment in Zona, The Sec. Zona 16, is rented to the U.S. embassy. And that’s, that’s. I would consider that a luxury apartment, but the embassy was built like 200 meters away from the apartment. Yeah, which is kind of nice, but I heard rumors about that when I bought the apartment in pre construction, so it worked out quite well. So, you know, again, depending on the area, the, the overall best return on your money would come from bodegas, from warehouses.
Scott Oliver: Wow. Wow.
Richard Bexon: But that does involve normally a fairly significant investment. You know, we’ve been discussing with some people recently who built, I think it’s 16 bodegas they built of 6,000 square meters each. So these are big bodegas. And I don’t think people quite understand the scope of industry here in Guatemala and the scope of business here. There’s also a lot of U.S. and Canadian companies that have offshore the business here. And to give you an example, I went on a meditation retreat probably six, seven months ago and we started chatting to people, what do you do, etc. And one guy said, oh, I manage a call center. Oh, really? We started chatting and I’m thinking he’s got like 50 people. He said he manages 5,000 people in a single call center in Guatemala City. That’s just one call center. So I think people outside of Guatemala don’t quite appreciate the size of business here. I don’t think they appreciate the amount of money that’s here. I mean, there are some incredibly wealthy people here. I mean, we have more helicopters per capita than most major cities in Europe because, well, a, the traffic sucks, but B, there’s people here with, you know, boatloads of bloody money. Having said that, as you very well know, there is a fairly significant percentage of the population who would be considered to be poor. But by most standards, in the past 10 years, Guatemala has improved quite dramatically, whether it’s water quality, whether it’s nutrition or whether it’s education. So I’m hoping, you know, we’re at the the cusp of good things happening. And another big difference between Costa Rica and Guatemala is your tourism agency has been quite good. And if I remember rightly, you were part of the board of the ICT for some time, right? Years ago, yes. I’m not part of the board of any government organization. I just, I couldn’t handle it. I don’t have the patience that you do. But the new guy in charge of inguate, which is Guatemala’s tourism board, is doing a really good job. And I’ve been trying to get to meet with him. I haven’t met with him yet because he’s doing the kind of stuff that I used to do with my website in Costa Rica. You know, we’ve got to talk about the crime. We’ve got to talk about, you know, these things because people are looking for them. You give them the information, the truthful information, which obviously is difficult to find these days about anything. But give the people the truth and let them decide what’s best for them.
Scott Oliver: Correct. I mean, when you look at that stuff, it’s actually safer down here than it probably is in most Western world, to be honest with you. I think it’s just that fear that’s been. I mean, whenever you see movies and stuff where there’s bad guys, usually they’re from a Latin American country.
Richard Bexon: Oh yeah. Well, I mean, my Mrs. As you know, is Guatemalan. We don’t speak English in the home until, in fact, we’ve never actually had an English conversation in 25 years. So we watch 90% Spanish TV and all of the Mexican movies on Netflix. I mean, what are they like? 90% narcos are drug dealers. So of course Mexico has perhaps its more deserved reputation as a narco state than many places, but it’s still obviously incredibly exaggerated. But having said that, sure Costa Rica has its problems, sure Costa Rica has drug problems, sure it’s getting worse. Guatemala has drug problems too, and sure it’s getting worse. But I think probably the progression or the deterioration that we are seeing is infinitely less and much slower than what we’re seeing in the United States or in the UK for example.
How Would You Invest $500,000 Inheritance in Costa Rica?
Scott Oliver: I agree, I agree. Well, my last question for you, Scott, as I’ve kept you long enough, if you inherited $500,000 and you had to invest it into a business or real estate in Costa Rica, I’m going to. But the Costa Rica kind of focus on here. What would you invest it in and why?
Richard Bexon: The capital city is growing. There are serious traffic problems in many parts of the capital city. So a lot of people who are working in the city and who used to travel into the city now live in the city. But there’s still a lot more people who would love to avoid the commute that they do every single day. And for those of you who haven’t been in traffic in Guatemala or in Costa Rica, simply no comparison. In Guatemala City you could spend two hours going to work, no problem, and literally going 15 kilometers. So it can be horrendous. So we’re seeing a lot of that 15 minute city mentality here, which from a political and control standpoint, as far as I’m concerned, is horrific. But from a living standpoint, obviously it’s great where you live in your condo and you Have a supermarket downstairs and Everybody else is 50 meters away. So those specific areas, those little areas that are very, what’s the word I’m looking for? Contained. I think those are good areas to invest. So there are nice areas in Zona Quince, lovely areas, excuse me, in Zona de Secs. Ciudad Calla, which is the largest private city in Central and Latin America, has been a very good investment for us personally and I think will continue to be a good investment. It’s probably the safest city in the area. Well, not probably. It’s most definitely the safest city in the area. And obviously if it’s good enough for the US embassy, the brand new $400 million US embassy, then they obviously did their homework. So I would probably invest that half a million in two or three apartments that I thought would be good rentals for executive type rentals.
Scott Oliver: What would you do if it was here in Costa Rica, Scott? Would you do the same down in remencies, Savannah Santana?
Richard Bexon: I’d probably call you Richard. No, I mean I’ve been out of the. I sold my business in Costa Rica in 2018, so I’ve been out of it, out of Costa Rica now for out of the ins and outs of the market for a good six years. So I would not actually invest in Costa Rica without professional help from people like you. Obviously we still own property and a particular project in Santa Ana, if something became available there, yeah, I would jump at that. But you know, I think whether it’s Guatemala or whether it’s Costa Rica, the same thing applies completely different systems of law, completely different culture. There are communication differences. That intercultural communication difference is important that people understand. So if you do want to make an investment and you’re not intimately familiar with the country, the people, the culture and the laws, then please do try and get somebody who is a highly recommended person to help you make those decisions and by all means get second opinions, but try and get some professional advice.
Conclusion
Scott Oliver: I always say to people, trust but verify everything. Even I’ve had say to me, hey, I’m going to trust and verify that, Rich. And I’m like, go for it, go for it.
Richard Bexon: Absolutely. I mean that is something I do too, especially in medicine after the past five years too. Trust, verify. This guy know what the hell he’s talking about. And if he’s one of those guys that’s driving down the highway, the mask on and nobody else in the car, I’m never going to talk to him.
Scott Oliver: Yeah, exactly. Well, Scott, this has been an absolute pleasure having you here. On the podcast. Anyone that wants to get into contact with Scott about basically, I suppose, investing, moving, living in Guatemala. I’ll put all of his contact details down in the description, but very much.
Richard Bexon: Appreciate you joining us, Richard.
Scott Oliver: No worries. Have a good one.
Richard Bexon: Okay. That’s the right one.
